Author Topic: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?  (Read 51934 times)

Offline Satan's Portrait

  • Ammit, Eater of the Dead
  • ****
  • Posts: 3491
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #175 on: December 26, 2010, 03:21:45 pm »
"Rockers of the underground/Black and heavy is our sound"  :cool:

Offline MercyfulRobin

  • Just A Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • She does make a good cup of tea!
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #176 on: December 28, 2010, 05:01:02 pm »
Just pure perfect heavy metal!  \m/
She does make a good cup of tea!

Offline lord_morthron

  • Holy Shrine
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • Lie upon lie mankind shall die!
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2011, 04:45:58 am »
Generally, when I listen to black metal, I get this... feeling... It is hard to describe it. It is far more personal than anything else I've experienced... I also get that feeling from early Mercyful Fate releases and even early King Diamond albums (Fatal Portrait, Abigail, Them). So, yes, I do consider Mercyful Fate black metal. It is not about the blast beats and tremolo picking to me... It is about that feeling... When you can just feel that inner flame...  >:( >:D >:(

Hope it makes sense... If not... Ah well. It doesn't matter anyway.  :fingers:

Offline The Hitman

  • Up From The Grave
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2011, 12:27:19 pm »
Black Metal was not clearly defined in the early '80s. It obviously didn't refer to a specific sound. For example, Venom and Mercyful Fate didn't sound alike, but they were both still considered Black Metal. I suppose that Black Metal was defined by imagery and lyrical themes back then. Two bands that didn't sound alike could both be considered Black Metal if they shared common imagery and lyrical themes. Like I said, it didn't refer to a specific sound.

However, the definition of Black Metal changed over time. It most definitely refers to a specific sound nowadays; a sound that was pioneered by bands like Sarcofago and the Norwegian Black Metal bands of the early '90s.

Funnily enough, Running Wild and Helloween appeared on a split album in 1984 entitled "Death Metal!" As you can see, Death Metal wasn't clearly defined in the early '80s, either. Running Wild and Helloween would never be featured on an album entitled "Death Metal" today. Helloween is clearly Power Metal! It's almost the exact opposite of Death Metal. It reminds me of an interview with Cronos from the early '80s. He referred to Venom as Power Metal. Nobody would consider Venom to be Power Metal by today's definition of the term, but it wasn't clearly defined back then. None of the terms referred to a specific sound. It seemed like you could interchange Death Metal with Power Metal and nobody would blink an eye. It's entirely different today; each term refers to a specific sound.

Mercyful Fate essentially sounds like Traditional Heavy Metal. They could only be considered Black Metal by the outdated definition of the term. If you're going to say that Mercyful Fate is Black Metal, you might as well say that Helloween is Death Metal while you're at it.

The "First Wave of Black Metal" is a term that was created retroactively. Black Metal bands frequently cited Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, and Mercyful Fate as influences, so it was decided after the fact that said bands were the "First Wave of Black Metal." I understand that Mercyful Fate was an influence on Black Metal, but they still aren't Black Metal. Slayer was an influence on Death Metal, but Slayer is still Thrash Metal. In my opinion, the only band from the "First Wave of Black Metal" that sounds anything like Black Metal is Bathory. Under the Sign of the Black Mark!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 12:46:28 pm by The Hitman »

Offline HeadOnTheWall777

  • The King Of Diamonds
  • *****
  • Posts: 13063
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2011, 12:41:41 pm »
Black Metal was not clearly defined in the early '80s. It obviously didn't refer to a specific sound. For example, Venom and Mercyful Fate didn't sound alike, but they were both still considered Black Metal. I suppose that Black Metal was defined by imagery and lyrical themes back then. Two bands that didn't sound alike could both be considered Black Metal if they shared common imagery and lyrical themes. Like I said, it didn't refer to a specific sound.

However, the definition of Black Metal changed over time. It most definitely refers to a specific sound nowadays; a sound that was pioneered by bands like Sarcofago and the Norwegian Black Metal bands of the early '90s.

Funnily enough, Running Wild and Helloween appeared on a split album in 1984 entitled "Death Metal!" As you can see, Death Metal wasn't clearly defined in the early '80s, either. Running Wild and Helloween would never be featured on an album entitled "Death Metal" today. Helloween is clearly Power Metal! It's almost the exact opposite of Death Metal. It reminds me of an interview with Cronos from the early '80s. He referred to Venom as Power Metal. Nobody would consider Venom to be Power Metal by today's definition of the term, but it wasn't clearly defined back then. None of the terms referred to a specific sound. It seemed like you could interchange Death Metal with Power Metal and nobody would blink an eye. It's entirely different today; each term refers to a specific sound.

Mercyful Fate essentially sounds like Traditional Heavy Metal. They could only be considered Black Metal by the outdated definition of the term. If you're going to say that Mercyful Fate is Black Metal, you might as well say that Helloween is Death Metal while you're at it.

Out of all the arguments I've seen on this thread, I think is the best one and the one I can agree with. Nice post The Hitman and awesome reference to the classic "Death Metal" split. \m/

Offline The Hitman

  • Up From The Grave
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2011, 12:47:12 pm »
Whoops. I went back and edited my post to include an extra paragraph. You might want to go back and read it. Sorry about that. And thanks for the kind words!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 12:48:37 pm by The Hitman »

Offline HeadOnTheWall777

  • The King Of Diamonds
  • *****
  • Posts: 13063
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2011, 12:49:32 pm »
Whoops. I went back and edited my post to include an extra paragraph. You might want to go back and read it. Sorry about that.

Once again, an excellent explanation my good man. :king:

Offline General Hammerthrone

  • Lady In Black
  • *
  • Posts: 364
  • Traditional Metal Reign Supreme!
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2011, 04:16:50 pm »
Black Metal was not clearly defined in the early '80s. It obviously didn't refer to a specific sound. For example, Venom and Mercyful Fate didn't sound alike, but they were both still considered Black Metal. I suppose that Black Metal was defined by imagery and lyrical themes back then. Two bands that didn't sound alike could both be considered Black Metal if they shared common imagery and lyrical themes. Like I said, it didn't refer to a specific sound.

However, the definition of Black Metal changed over time. It most definitely refers to a specific sound nowadays; a sound that was pioneered by bands like Sarcofago and the Norwegian Black Metal bands of the early '90s.

Funnily enough, Running Wild and Helloween appeared on a split album in 1984 entitled "Death Metal!" As you can see, Death Metal wasn't clearly defined in the early '80s, either. Running Wild and Helloween would never be featured on an album entitled "Death Metal" today. Helloween is clearly Power Metal! It's almost the exact opposite of Death Metal. It reminds me of an interview with Cronos from the early '80s. He referred to Venom as Power Metal. Nobody would consider Venom to be Power Metal by today's definition of the term, but it wasn't clearly defined back then. None of the terms referred to a specific sound. It seemed like you could interchange Death Metal with Power Metal and nobody would blink an eye. It's entirely different today; each term refers to a specific sound.

Mercyful Fate essentially sounds like Traditional Heavy Metal. They could only be considered Black Metal by the outdated definition of the term. If you're going to say that Mercyful Fate is Black Metal, you might as well say that Helloween is Death Metal while you're at it.

The "First Wave of Black Metal" is a term that was created retroactively. Black Metal bands frequently cited Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, and Mercyful Fate as influences, so it was decided after the fact that said bands were the "First Wave of Black Metal." I understand that Mercyful Fate was an influence on Black Metal, but they still aren't Black Metal. Slayer was an influence on Death Metal, but Slayer is still Thrash Metal. In my opinion, the only band from the "First Wave of Black Metal" that sounds anything like Black Metal is Bathory. Under the Sign of the Black Mark!


I agree 100%. I was trying to say that in 1984 Mercyful Fate were indeed black metal if you asked "almost" anyone(almost). But yes for todays black metal standard they would not be considered. I suppose it is true that if the tearm "black metal" were alive in 1970 then Black Widow and Black Sabbath would be considered black metal too.

Offline The Hitman

  • Up From The Grave
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2011, 04:36:02 pm »
I wasn't responding to you specifically, General Hammerthrone. I was just throwing my two cents into the thread. It's all good, brother. Interesting point about Black Sabbath.

Offline Thomas

  • Lurker From The Dark
  • *
  • Posts: 262
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2011, 04:38:25 pm »
What.s a general hammerthrone? Is there such a thing as a specific hammerthrone?

Sorry. Drunken post...  :gah::-[
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 04:38:52 pm by Thomas »

Offline General Hammerthrone

  • Lady In Black
  • *
  • Posts: 364
  • Traditional Metal Reign Supreme!
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #185 on: January 15, 2011, 04:42:07 pm »
I wasn't responding to you specifically, General Hammerthrone. I was just throwing my two cents into the thread. It's all good, brother. Interesting point about Black Sabbath.

Yeah wouldn't we consider Sabbath black metal if it were out at that time? I surely would. To me metal all started with Black Sabbath but I know that Sabbath were influenced by earlier bands,it could go all the way back to the blues with Robert Johnson and the crossroads selling his soul to the devil. But I always start at Black Sabbath when I talk about metal but I'm not saying I know it all because I don't so this is not an argument please,just a cool discussion. I respect anybody's idea or opinions on this too,if somebody says it was Jimmi Hendrix that started metal then thats cool with me,its just a discussion even if we disagree its nice to discuss.


Thomas...no,there is no real General Hammerthrone...I know its retarded but I just thought it sounded cool. LOL! :cool:
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 04:44:51 pm by General Hammerthrone »

Offline Thomas

  • Lurker From The Dark
  • *
  • Posts: 262
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #186 on: January 15, 2011, 04:45:42 pm »
Yeah wouldn't we consider Sabbath black metal if it were out at that time? I surely would. To me metal all started with Black Sabbath but I know that Sabbath were influenced by earlier bands,it could go all the way back to the blues with Robert Johnson and the crossroads selling his soul to the devil. But I always start at Black Sabbath when I talk about metal but I'm not saying I know it all because I don't so this is not an argument please,just a cool discussion. I respect anybody's idea or opinions on this too,if somebody says it was Jimmi Hendrix that started metal then thats cool with me,its just a discussion even if we disagree its nice to discuss.


Thomas...no,there is no real General Hammerthrone...I just thought it sounded cool. LOL! :cool:

Let's not go there, discussing the origins of Black Metal is enough. :D

Offline General Hammerthrone

  • Lady In Black
  • *
  • Posts: 364
  • Traditional Metal Reign Supreme!
Re: do you consider Mercyful Fate as black metal?
« Reply #187 on: January 15, 2011, 04:58:37 pm »
Let's not go there, discussing the origins of Black Metal is enough. :D


LOL!  :cool: