Author Topic: A cold rainy night. A knock upon your door. Its king, he needs a favor.  (Read 28833 times)

Offline Lucifers Mirror

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This thread's premise is like a Mad Lib game or a totally schizoid fantasy.

If you ran over Bin Laden, how would you know it was him? Because he was some tall Arab guy with a beard? Certainly he wouldn't have a drivers license that said "Osama B. Laden" would he? If he had an ID at all, it would probably be in arabic. King probably wouldn't be like "hey I need to fix my tire." From what little I know of King, I suspect he'd be like "Oh SHIT! I just killed another human being! Call the authorities because it's the right and just thing to do." He might have a sense of satisfaction once the facts came out, and he would likely be hailed as a hero, but I highly doubt he would be happy about killing anyone. Also, Bin Laden would then be revered as a martyr and there would be plenty more killings and bloodshed done in his honor, and I doubt King would want blood from a so-called holy war on his hands.

As an aside, I suspect that Bin Laden had very little to do personally with 9-11 and that he is really just one of many bit players in a vast network of evil, militant Jihad-crazed terrorists, all of whom want us dead. I suspect that he is just the figure head chosen by our media and government to put a scary face on our enemy. I'm not saying he isn't a really bad dude who should pay for his crimes, but I doubt he had more to do with it than a hundred or a thousand other unknown "little Bin Ladens."
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Offline Maiden Jersey

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^ about Bin Laden
Its all about the money man, he funded a lot of that shit. So maybe he had nothing to do with planning it out but a lot of his money was invested and without that it may not of happened.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 04:03:46 pm by Maiden Jersey »

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@lucifers mirror. I respect your opinion. And dont get me wrong, i hate ours and every goverment to. And yes, this is my fantacy! I should have clarified that king was not looking to hit anyone, but that the evil maggot bin laden tried to run across the road as a jay walker who conciously chose to disobey the walk sign when the sign said dont walk.  :cool:  :D  anyway, DEATH TO BIN LADEN!

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Oh, and a little of that reward money would be SWEEEEEEET!  :D

Offline BellwitchMF

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@bellwitchmf. You rule!  :)  :king: 
thanks man! its the truth empathy is what makes us humans and seperates us from ANIMALS man,guess some people are still animals and never devoloped the thoughts to feel another mans pain...

Offline KingOfTheRotten

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holy shit you DONT CARE?????? i bet ur ass isnt american!(and if you are WOW JUST WOW) that fucker bin laden is a damn terrorist and a DEMON and deserves a painful and slow death,cant believe how ignorant some people are...show a little empathy man! its what makes us humans and SEPERATES us from animals :gah:
Sorry to say this but i dissagree and i don't like that american patrotism or whatever you can call it whenever 9/11 or things associated with it is brought up.
I remember a drawing i saw in here which pretty much was what it all was about let me find it...
I can't seem to find it right now.. but it showed a mayor city (pretty similar to new york) which just kept bombing a small country. The small country answered by sending a plane into a building i the big city. THe big city replied by sending more bombs. I understand why people would do an attack, what is the thousdands USA lost that day against the millions they have killede elsewhere? I don't see the point in that. As well as that USA had trained Bin Laden and given him money for Taliban and shit, it's USA's own fault.
I don't support that they attacked you not at all but i don't support what you guys are doing either. I mean wtf? what are USA doing in those contries anyways?

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@king of the rotten. I despise clinton, bush, obama and almost every goverment official. And yes, our goverment is extreamly corrupt, but bin laden and his fecal maggot minions hate life, love and especially women. Bin laden is beyond evil and he and his fecal minions will pay for their coward sadistic ways and so will our goverment and every goverment. Anyway, happy cinco de mayo and death to usama bin laden and impeach our pathetic goverment. I am very proud that KD sings against extream religious fanatics. Remember that THE EYE happens to muslim women everyday. 

Offline Vlad the Impaler

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Interesting topic. :cool:

First if King showed up at my door and said he ran over Bin Laden and needed my help, he'd get it
no matter what time it was he came knocking.

However, I'd Kill Bin Laden for a Klondike Bar \m/  And because Bin Laden is a Sadistic nutcase
who kills for his own religious beliefs. And that's wrong and crazy.

I don't support the senseless slaughter of innocent people in the name of God or whatever
religious beliefs you have or may have. It's ludicrous to assume that it's a right and just cause
to kill innocent people because their faith is not the same as yours. Because it's not. People have been
doing it for thousands of years and still don't get it. You just can't do it.

You can't claim to be civilized and then kill those poorer than you or don't share your same religious beliefs,
that's not the actions of a civilized society.

It is also wrong to kill innocent people to force your ideas and beliefs onto them. That's an ugliness
of a different sort, and is wrong and crazy as well.

But that's how I see it. :cool:

   
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Offline KingOfTheRotten

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@king of the rotten. I despise clinton, bush, obama and almost every goverment official. And yes, our goverment is extreamly corrupt, but bin laden and his fecal maggot minions hate life, love and especially women. Bin laden is beyond evil and he and his fecal minions will pay for their coward sadistic ways and so will our goverment and every goverment. Anyway, happy cinco de mayo and death to usama bin laden and impeach our pathetic goverment. I am very proud that KD sings against extream religious fanatics. Remember that THE EYE happens to muslim women everyday. 
But it doesn't make sense when you are bombing the innocent. Off course i know that The Eye is still happening, the story line anyways.

But remember that America can be terrorists as well as Bin Laden might be.
To one side Bin Laden is a terrorist, but to his companions he is a war hero, just like a trooper from USA who takes out some ''evil'' men from another country will be called a hero and get a medal. Does that make sense?

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@vlad the impailer. LOL, klondike bar! CLASSIC my friend! You rule. :)  :)    @king of the rotten. I respect your opinion. I love our military men and women, but i hate our goverment. Anyway, vlad impailer talking about klondike bars has made me hungry before work.  :)   and to king diamond, your music and the emotions of the charactors are so relavent today and everyday. :king:

Offline Azalin

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Sorry to say this but i dissagree and i don't like that american patrotism or whatever you can call it whenever 9/11 or things associated with it is brought up.
I remember a drawing i saw in here which pretty much was what it all was about let me find it...
I can't seem to find it right now.. but it showed a mayor city (pretty similar to new york) which just kept bombing a small country. The small country answered by sending a plane into a building i the big city. THe big city replied by sending more bombs. I understand why people would do an attack, what is the thousdands USA lost that day against the millions they have killede elsewhere? I don't see the point in that. As well as that USA had trained Bin Laden and given him money for Taliban and shit, it's USA's own fault.
I don't support that they attacked you not at all but i don't support what you guys are doing either. I mean wtf? what are USA doing in those contries anyways?

man, you have a lot of stuff here to reply to.....let me see if I can shed a little light on a few things and maybe provide a little perspective, at least from the viewpoint of a staunchly patriotic American.

first, the reaction from Americans to the subject of the terrorist attcks of september 2001. three thousand people were murdered. its really just that simple. it wasnt an attack on a military base that was occupying land in some other country, it was an attack in our home. its like being robbed or mugged - its bad enough when that happens to you when you are out in public, but having someone kick your door down and blow you away in your own home is worse. it becomes personal.

Bin Laden & his goons attacked because (according to them) we are defiling holy land by having military bases there. most of those bases serve to protect the interests of the Saudis by helping to guard their oil fields. America, Saudi Arabia, Europe....many nations benefit from that. Bin Laden is a Saudi who was outcast from his family for his radical views. his familys wealth comes from their business partnership with the west....in other words, his own wealth came from the people he despises. thats a bit like a Colombian drug lord using his wealth to wage war against cocaine.

many of (most, in fact) of our military bases around the world are a result of us having soldiers deployed from as far back as world war II, the larger amount being missile installations that were placed during the days of the cold war against the soviets. these were placed in an effort to maintain a stalemate status, or what was called Mutually Assured Destruction, meaning that there were enough missiles on both sides to guarantee that neither side could hope for a victory. that meant a hell of a lot of missiles, which require a hell of a lot of bases for them. we have many bases around the world that were established for reasons that are not necessarily needed any longer....some have closed, some are kept for rapid troop and weapon deployment, and others for various operations, including training. almost every single one of those bases has become part of the local economy. closing them is often a crippling blow to the locals. besides, people seem to forget that in many case we were asked to bring our troops there in order to help another nation defend itself against invasion (ie Balkans & eastern Europe).

in terms of the US losing three thousand citizens compared to the hundreds of thousands that the US has killed in various wars over the course of history, that comparison is bogus. there is a huge difference between troops fighting on a battlefield and bombing of strategic infrastructure as opposed to flying commercial jets into high-rise office buildings full of people who are just going about their normal routine. is it right for the British to suffer bombings on their subway because someone disagrees with their foreign policy? is it a valid action to kill Spaniards riding the train because terrorists disapprove of their support in ousting the Taliban? I am of Irish descent, and I hate what the Brits have done over the centuries to the Irish, but I do not approve at all of the militant actions on the part of the IRA. killing innocent people is never acceptable.

I may take some grief for saying this, but is the rest of the world prepared to have the US butt out of international affairs and just keep to ourselves? the next time we are the first responders to earthquakes or floods, famine relief, housing refugees, helping to repell a military incursion, or protect someones oil fields, should we think twice and ask ourselves maybe they do not want our help....maybe we should mind our OWN business? you might be surprised at how many people in the US would say we should just not bother. it costs us an asswad of money to maintain our military, and many, many Americans are sick to fucking death at getting a bunch of crap from people who we have either defended in the past, loan or give vast sums of cash to keep their economies afloat, or who we feed because their own governments are either too inept or corrupt to do the job themselves. from my own personal point of view, I would simply stick with those nations who have always been our friend (thats a pretty short list) and leave the rest of the world to their own devices. and if I was in charge over here......anyone who pulled a stunt like the one on 9/11 would soon see their country glassed.
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Offline Vlad the Impaler

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man, you have a lot of stuff here to reply to.....let me see if I can shed a little light on a few things and maybe provide a little perspective, at least from the viewpoint of a staunchly patriotic American.

first, the reaction from Americans to the subject of the terrorist attcks of september 2001. three thousand people were murdered. its really just that simple. it wasnt an attack on a military base that was occupying land in some other country, it was an attack in our home. its like being robbed or mugged - its bad enough when that happens to you when you are out in public, but having someone kick your door down and blow you away in your own home is worse. it becomes personal.

Bin Laden & his goons attacked because (according to them) we are defiling holy land by having military bases there. most of those bases serve to protect the interests of the Saudis by helping to guard their oil fields. America, Saudi Arabia, Europe....many nations benefit from that. Bin Laden is a Saudi who was outcast from his family for his radical views. his familys wealth comes from their business partnership with the west....in other words, his own wealth came from the people he despises. thats a bit like a Colombian drug lord using his wealth to wage war against cocaine.

many of (most, in fact) of our military bases around the world are a result of us having soldiers deployed from as far back as world war II, the larger amount being missile installations that were placed during the days of the cold war against the soviets. these were placed in an effort to maintain a stalemate status, or what was called Mutually Assured Destruction, meaning that there were enough missiles on both sides to guarantee that neither side could hope for a victory. that meant a hell of a lot of missiles, which require a hell of a lot of bases for them. we have many bases around the world that were established for reasons that are not necessarily needed any longer....some have closed, some are kept for rapid troop and weapon deployment, and others for various operations, including training. almost every single one of those bases has become part of the local economy. closing them is often a crippling blow to the locals. besides, people seem to forget that in many case we were asked to bring our troops there in order to help another nation defend itself against invasion (ie Balkans & eastern Europe).

in terms of the US losing three thousand citizens compared to the hundreds of thousands that the US has killed in various wars over the course of history, that comparison is bogus. there is a huge difference between troops fighting on a battlefield and bombing of strategic infrastructure as opposed to flying commercial jets into high-rise office buildings full of people who are just going about their normal routine. is it right for the British to suffer bombings on their subway because someone disagrees with their foreign policy? is it a valid action to kill Spaniards riding the train because terrorists disapprove of their support in ousting the Taliban? I am of Irish descent, and I hate what the Brits have done over the centuries to the Irish, but I do not approve at all of the militant actions on the part of the IRA. killing innocent people is never acceptable.

I may take some grief for saying this, but is the rest of the world prepared to have the US butt out of international affairs and just keep to ourselves? the next time we are the first responders to earthquakes or floods, famine relief, housing refugees, helping to repell a military incursion, or protect someones oil fields, should we think twice and ask ourselves maybe they do not want our help....maybe we should mind our OWN business? you might be surprised at how many people in the US would say we should just not bother. it costs us an asswad of money to maintain our military, and many, many Americans are sick to fucking death at getting a bunch of crap from people who we have either defended in the past, loan or give vast sums of cash to keep their economies afloat, or who we feed because their own governments are either too inept or corrupt to do the job themselves. from my own personal point of view, I would simply stick with those nations who have always been our friend (thats a pretty short list) and leave the rest of the world to their own devices. and if I was in charge over here......anyone who pulled a stunt like the one on 9/11 would soon see their country glassed.
\m/
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Offline lightninfeet

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I may take some grief for saying this, but is the rest of the world prepared to have the US butt out of international affairs and just keep to ourselves? the next time we are the first responders to earthquakes or floods, famine relief, housing refugees, helping to repell a military incursion, or protect someones oil fields, should we think twice and ask ourselves maybe they do not want our help....maybe we should mind our OWN business? you might be surprised at how many people in the US would say we should just not bother. it costs us an asswad of money to maintain our military, and many, many Americans are sick to fucking death at getting a bunch of crap from people who we have either defended in the past, loan or give vast sums of cash to keep their economies afloat, or who we feed because their own governments are either too inept or corrupt to do the job themselves. from my own personal point of view, I would simply stick with those nations who have always been our friend (thats a pretty short list) and leave the rest of the world to their own devices. and if I was in charge over here......anyone who pulled a stunt like the one on 9/11 would soon see their country glassed.

There it is right here.  Everyone wants our business, money, and support in all things.  But at their earliest inconvenience, we should fuck off.

Many Americans have been saying it for years.  "Maybe we should just 'fuck off.'  Let's see what becomes of the countries who would have been starved or invaded without our charity."

There are plenty of shitty things our government has done in the past, but since when does that merit murdering innocent civilians?  Many Americans would argue, "They did it to us, nuke that whole fucking area and end this shit now."  Which we could have easily done...we've done it before (WWII).  And it ended shit.  But that wouldn't be right would it?
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Offline KingOfTheRotten

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man, you have a lot of stuff here to reply to.....let me see if I can shed a little light on a few things and maybe provide a little perspective, at least from the viewpoint of a staunchly patriotic American.

first, the reaction from Americans to the subject of the terrorist attcks of september 2001. three thousand people were murdered. its really just that simple. it wasnt an attack on a military base that was occupying land in some other country, it was an attack in our home. its like being robbed or mugged - its bad enough when that happens to you when you are out in public, but having someone kick your door down and blow you away in your own home is worse. it becomes personal.

Bin Laden & his goons attacked because (according to them) we are defiling holy land by having military bases there. most of those bases serve to protect the interests of the Saudis by helping to guard their oil fields. America, Saudi Arabia, Europe....many nations benefit from that. Bin Laden is a Saudi who was outcast from his family for his radical views. his familys wealth comes from their business partnership with the west....in other words, his own wealth came from the people he despises. thats a bit like a Colombian drug lord using his wealth to wage war against cocaine.

many of (most, in fact) of our military bases around the world are a result of us having soldiers deployed from as far back as world war II, the larger amount being missile installations that were placed during the days of the cold war against the soviets. these were placed in an effort to maintain a stalemate status, or what was called Mutually Assured Destruction, meaning that there were enough missiles on both sides to guarantee that neither side could hope for a victory. that meant a hell of a lot of missiles, which require a hell of a lot of bases for them. we have many bases around the world that were established for reasons that are not necessarily needed any longer....some have closed, some are kept for rapid troop and weapon deployment, and others for various operations, including training. almost every single one of those bases has become part of the local economy. closing them is often a crippling blow to the locals. besides, people seem to forget that in many case we were asked to bring our troops there in order to help another nation defend itself against invasion (ie Balkans & eastern Europe).

in terms of the US losing three thousand citizens compared to the hundreds of thousands that the US has killed in various wars over the course of history, that comparison is bogus. there is a huge difference between troops fighting on a battlefield and bombing of strategic infrastructure as opposed to flying commercial jets into high-rise office buildings full of people who are just going about their normal routine. is it right for the British to suffer bombings on their subway because someone disagrees with their foreign policy? is it a valid action to kill Spaniards riding the train because terrorists disapprove of their support in ousting the Taliban? I am of Irish descent, and I hate what the Brits have done over the centuries to the Irish, but I do not approve at all of the militant actions on the part of the IRA. killing innocent people is never acceptable.

I may take some grief for saying this, but is the rest of the world prepared to have the US butt out of international affairs and just keep to ourselves? the next time we are the first responders to earthquakes or floods, famine relief, housing refugees, helping to repell a military incursion, or protect someones oil fields, should we think twice and ask ourselves maybe they do not want our help....maybe we should mind our OWN business? you might be surprised at how many people in the US would say we should just not bother. it costs us an asswad of money to maintain our military, and many, many Americans are sick to fucking death at getting a bunch of crap from people who we have either defended in the past, loan or give vast sums of cash to keep their economies afloat, or who we feed because their own governments are either too inept or corrupt to do the job themselves. from my own personal point of view, I would simply stick with those nations who have always been our friend (thats a pretty short list) and leave the rest of the world to their own devices. and if I was in charge over here......anyone who pulled a stunt like the one on 9/11 would soon see their country glassed.
When USA Is bombing in foreign countries, like they did in Vietnam or like they have done in Afghanistan or Iraq, what they are killing are innocents. three thousands are a lot of people, but Compared to how many USA Kills, it's nothing. I never said that there have been anything wrong in you guys having bases and shit. I might get some theories why you would guard someone elses Oil though, but that's a whole different thing.

I have never said that your help isn't seen with graditude, when you help places where there have been floods or storms and shit like that. What i think is wrong is that you're actually sometimes doing the exact same as they are, by, what i would call, close to the same reasons they attack you. Many of those countries and terrorists are attacking because you have a different culture or a different religion right?
But when USA entered Iraq and began killing to get Sadam Hussein, what was that for? It started as an idea of him making weapons of mass destruction right? you found out that it wasn't weapons what you had seen (well not you but the US government) but what did you do? You found another reason. You thought they needed democrazy am i right? Isn't that the exact same as attacking because of a religion? Because they have a different way to do things, they should be attacked. Well i don't say that they did what is right there, but they did what they did. I don't say that Islam is a good religion, just as i don't think christianity is a good religion. But i don't think anyone should attack anybody just because they believe, or have something different than you have.

Well i guess that's all i have to say right now, you might think ''wtf'' and i might think ''yeah'' but you're still my friend Rick :cool: Just arguing with ya! I prefer US over those countries everyday :)

Offline lightninfeet

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While I don't disagree that we should have stayed out of Vietnam, do some research on it.  It was a civil war, and it was the NVA blowing the shit out of their own countrymen.  We were at a disadvantage by being there, in that the enemy looked identical to the ally.

On a side note, as a former US soldier, I'd like to say that whether you are a soldier with the opposing force, or a five year old child who has been brainwashed by your country, when you pick up a weapon against me in a theater of war...you just surrendered your innocence.
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Offline KingOfTheRotten

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While I don't disagree that we should have stayed out of Vietnam, do some research on it.  It was a civil war, and it was the NVA blowing the shit out of their own countrymen.  We were at a disadvantage by being there, in that the enemy looked identical to the ally.

On a side note, as a former US soldier, I'd like to say that whether you are a soldier with the opposing force, or a five year old child who has been brainwashed by your country, when you pick up a weapon against me in a theater of war...you just surrendered your innocence.
I understand and i agree :)

Offline Azalin

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But when USA entered Iraq and began killing to get Sadam Hussein, what was that for? It started as an idea of him making weapons of mass destruction right? you found out that it wasn't weapons what you had seen (well not you but the US government) but what did you do? You found another reason. You thought they needed democrazy am i right? Isn't that the exact same as attacking because of a religion? Because they have a different way to do things, they should be attacked.

there were four major factors in our going to war in Iraq. the first (and most heavily publicized) was due to Saddam giving the UN weapons inspectors the runaround - the issue of the WMDs. the reason we knew he had them was because he got them from us to aid Iraq in their was against Iran. whether he used them all, sold them off, destroyed them, or buried them in the desert....I have no clue.

the second reason we went into Iraq was because Saddam was continuously trying to shoot down our planes which were patrolling the no-fly-zones. every 2 weeks or so our planes were uinder attack from anti-aircraft fire.

a third reason is that the first gulf war ended in a cease-fire resolution by the UN. Iraq violated that cease-fire treaty a minimum of 16 times before we attacked.

a fourth reason we took out Saddam was because of the failed assassination attempt on the senior pres Bush by Saddams goons.

I always felt that bringing democracy to Iraq was a bit of a sales-pitch to be honest. promoting Iraqi self-rule and ending the reign of a despot should be good enough without pitching our way of life to the rest of the world. but the whole Iraq situation has nothing to do with Bin Laden and his attack on the US. on this board, more than on any other I have ever been to, I constantly see sentiments posted about the evils of religion, how they cause wars, suffering, opression, etc, etc, etc. with Bin Laden we have someone who is overtly using religion to induce bigotry for the purpose of instigating mass murder, and instead of seizing upon the most golden opportunity people will likely ever have for an example of religious-based violations of human rights, it instead gets turned into a Americans got what they deserved attitude.

and dont worry about me....I dont have to agree with people for them to still be my friend. for such a young guy....and a foreigner too.....you really arent too bad a guy yourself. :P

and you dont look like Dave Mustaine much at all.  :cool:
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Offline lightninfeet

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and you dont look like Dave Mustaine much at all.  :cool:

LIAR! :fingers:
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Offline Azalin

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Lady, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the store....

- Ash, housewares

Offline lightninfeet

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schlurd  :cool:

 :o OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
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Offline KingOfTheRotten

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there were four major factors in our going to war in Iraq. the first (and most heavily publicized) was due to Saddam giving the UN weapons inspectors the runaround - the issue of the WMDs. the reason we knew he had them was because he got them from us to aid Iraq in their was against Iran. whether he used them all, sold them off, destroyed them, or buried them in the desert....I have no clue.

the second reason we went into Iraq was because Saddam was continuously trying to shoot down our planes which were patrolling the no-fly-zones. every 2 weeks or so our planes were uinder attack from anti-aircraft fire.

a third reason is that the first gulf war ended in a cease-fire resolution by the UN. Iraq violated that cease-fire treaty a minimum of 16 times before we attacked.

a fourth reason we took out Saddam was because of the failed assassination attempt on the senior pres Bush by Saddams goons.

I always felt that bringing democracy to Iraq was a bit of a sales-pitch to be honest. promoting Iraqi self-rule and ending the reign of a despot should be good enough without pitching our way of life to the rest of the world. but the whole Iraq situation has nothing to do with Bin Laden and his attack on the US. on this board, more than on any other I have ever been to, I constantly see sentiments posted about the evils of religion, how they cause wars, suffering, opression, etc, etc, etc. with Bin Laden we have someone who is overtly using religion to induce bigotry for the purpose of instigating mass murder, and instead of seizing upon the most golden opportunity people will likely ever have for an example of religious-based violations of human rights, it instead gets turned into a Americans got what they deserved attitude.

and dont worry about me....I dont have to agree with people for them to still be my friend. for such a young guy....and a foreigner too.....you really arent too bad a guy yourself. :P

and you dont look like Dave Mustaine much at all.  :cool:
That's what i mean, the reason we are told here in Denmark is that the US said to the press that they wanted to bring democracy to Iraq. But i see that as the same as the religion thing. I have never and will never support Osama Bin Laden and/or his goons, same deal with Hussein. What i meant was only the interferrance with their countries, and i know you have been bombing a lot of different countries over the years.

I believe that murder never is justified (In normal cases, there are extreme cases where i think murder can be justified.) :gah:

Offline KingOfTheRotten

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and dont worry about me....I dont have to agree with people for them to still be my friend. for such a young guy....and a foreigner too.....you really arent too bad a guy yourself. :P

Sorry but by that you mean? :gah:

I sometimes need things explained lol!


and you dont look like Dave Mustaine much at all.  :cool:
That's great to know someone don't see it :cool:

Offline Azalin

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Sorry but by that you mean? :gah:

I sometimes need things explained lol!
oh nothing.....just teasing you for not being an American. it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. :P
Lady, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the store....

- Ash, housewares

Offline KingOfTheRotten

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oh nothing.....just teasing you for not being an American. it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. :P
Hahahha yeah that might be true :gah:

METALLATEM

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Wow, i am impressed that you all have done your homework. :)  we are all friends here who can agree to disagree. Even though gw bush sucks, I must mention that i got very excited when saddam hung there like a limp penus! That was so cool. :D  LOL  :cool: